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Richard Millington, from Feverbee joins Chris Detzel on Peers Over Beers. We cover a multitude of topics that include Web 3.0, social media and Community managers and how their roles are can be different but also how they can intersect. We also dive into investments into the outcomes of community and why organizations should potentially invest. Lastly, we talk about some of the online community platforms and where some are more innovative than others. I think we both are on the same page when we say, “none are really innovative” as they basically do the same things.
B2B Community Strategist Chris Detzel is your host for this fun and straight shooting podcast for enterprise community leaders / managers and digital savvy professionals. With easy and natural inquisitive banter, your host will tackle hard issues facing community leaders and managers in their day-to-day struggles, and yes, sometimes over a beer. From starting new communities, digitally transforming enterprise culture, moderation, and globalization techniques are all up for discussion.
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Welcome to another episode of peers.
Over beers, your favorite, digital and social evangelist podcast with
your industry veteran hosts, Chris Detzel.
This podcast Starts Now.
All right.
Here we go.
So, welcome to another peers over beers.
My name is Chris Detzel.
And today, we do have a special guest Rich, Millington Rich.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
I think everybody knows who you are, by the way, I doubt that.
But I'm flattered.
Um, hi everyone.
I'm rich.
I'm the founder of a consultancy called Feverbee, and I think maybe
what makes us unique is that we are very much at the intersection of
the psychology and the technology and the strategy that makes
A community work.
So a lot of our work is really getting those things aligned and taking
great companies and helping them, build amazing online and offline
communities of customers fans, employees or those great and wonderful
things.
Yeah.
You're right.
You've been doing this a really long time rich and I know I have.
So when I first started kind of building online communities or in part
of communities, I was part of a company called well, so it's sort of
kind of where it started for me but a company called Mitchell
force.com, and the
I might know a guy by the name of Nick last name.
I'm going to he's going to come out.
I'll tag him on a LinkedIn post but and a bit, right?
The camera like heaven.
Yes.
Nikki meant, we're Facebook friends.
And we so he's the one that introduced me to you years and years ago
and ever since I've been following, you know, fever be community.
And then, you know, we've met once or twice at one was a higher logic
super Forum a few years ago.
And then here we are today and of course, I've been following your
For a long time.
So I appreciate you getting on and stuff like that.
I mean, I'd love how you're so bold and you just kind of tell it how
it is the other piece.
I really like is that how data focused you are and Roi kind of
focused, you know, for communities to think it's it's hard to do to be
honest, you know, but I think it's very important in you show.
A lot of really cool stuff.
So why don't we go ahead and get in it.
So you just went to Israel but in a week or two ago and would love to
know more about that.
Trip.
How was it what you talked about?
And, you know, let us know.
Yeah, is a really exciting trip.
So, I've been to Israel a couple of times now and what's really
interesting in Israel compared to any of us have been to like the
times when I go to San Francisco and I'm like, oh this is the
epicenter of community, you know, all the people here, all the
companies here, but when I think about it, I think it's the epicenter
of Community Technology and it's the epicenter of like a very specific
kind.
Of community and environment when you go to Israel and as in no
Jerusalem, what's the time?
This time?
The natural Community Vibe is incredible like as at the community
forward Retreat, which was amazing, an amazing organization, really do
look them up and I was invited to speak at that event.
But just how naturally community-oriented the people I was meeting
there were it's just incredible like in the community space, you know,
everyone gets along but you know,
sometimes different people compete with others.
And so he kind of has open and Frank as you want to be in Israel, it.
I don't know if it's just what I experienced, but everyone is so open.
Everyone is so sharing everything.
Everyone is like inviting their competitors and sharing their advice
for their competitors.
So everyone wins.
It's like, it's such an amazing experience.
And I'm so lucky and grateful that I get to speaker that kind of
event.
So that's what I'm doing now.
And I think, by the way that Jerusalem, I mean I'm not going to be
into a political discussion, but it's such
Phenomenal, place to build.
Yeah, like everyone should do a guided tour of Drew is from.
I'll give you the name of someone that I think is fantastic.
That's great.
It's such a phenomenal place to visit.
I really recommend that if you get a chance to go, you should go.
Yeah, so my previous company was working at a cyber security company
called, imperva built their Community.
Yeah, and yeah, and I went to 82, I didn't get to go to Jerusalem, but
I went to Tel Aviv a few to a couple times and just, you know, I loved
Israelis and just building relationships with them and
And talk about black people, they're very blunt.
And but I love it, you know, it's so, you're right a great Community
there.
And, you know, it's interesting because I'm starting to see more
communities built out of Jerusalem for, you know, from a technology
side, and maybe it's more of the cybersecurity piece of.
Maybe, I'm just now noticing, just because I was part of that.
So, I would say over the last couple of years around, 20% of our work,
is that, how can I do for you will get bigger than that?
Just because there's companies there that I like, have better.
Two connections to do that.
But like yeah, about 20 percent of our work is that and that's quite
interesting compared to like the size of Israel compared to other
places where we work.
I agree.
But it's a hub is specifically for you know technology Hub in a big
way and certainly cyber security is a huge pod there, right?
So, so I agree with you.
I love this Raley's and I still have relationships from when I worked
at a bar that I talk to you every week or sometimes every month, you
know, so, you know, as we kind of look at the last two years.
Years of, you know Community maybe it's three, you know with I don't
know.
It feels like whenever you start looking at the buzz on Twitter and
social sites and things like that.
That's just taken off now.
I mean you've been in the space for a while.
I've been in it, you know, what a while as well and it does feel a
little different.
I don't know how you feel about it.
But what do you think about, you know, what's going on in the
community space?
I think at the beginning of the pandemic, I was so worried for our
sector because I felt as though, the economy is going to collapse
because and then the first
In often gets cut in a bad financial year is community and I thought
we were going to see and I did happen in a couple of companies, you
know, we saw a big layoffs and I think we will know people that
suffered from that.
That's right.
But I think what we saw as well was a surge of interesting Community,
especially support kinds of communities, where you want to connect
people, where you come home anymore.
So I think we have seen a surge, what I don't know yet is whether
we're still riding in that that wave.
And it's going to drop a bit once because takes time to get a
community up and running like if you began investing in like 2000,
Now's the Time where you'll start to see the fruits of their efforts.
So, I don't know if we're going to drop down a bit.
I'm not one that think so Community is the future of everything.
There's other people that have that belief, but I think Community
plays an important role.
I think we still haven't quite defined, the value of community, quite
as precisely as perhaps we should.
Um, I think the still confusion about what community is, but I think
what we're seeing is that there's a whole spread of community ever,
some of them mature, some of a young and there's a lot more diversity
in the types of communities that we're seeing.
So I think we're seeing an increase in the level of Interest.
I think within the community scene or the community industry.
There's a lot going on.
There's a lot of like busy new events and activities.
55 years ago.
I felt I would have known.
Like all of the big players in the same and now there's people doing
amazing stuff.
I'm like, oh this guy in India is like incredible.
I've never heard this person before this person doing their own event
and activity.
And yeah, it's, it's exciting.
Like it's just, it's daunting at times but it's like, it's exciting.
I want to unpack something and I didn't tell you, I was gonna do this,
but you said something that would set an interesting around.
A lot of times, when you start talking to some Community people, you
know, people are like, oh my gosh, Community is everything and
everybody.
To do it and everybody should, you know, and you kind of mention that
you don't necessarily believe that which I'm kind of on the same side.
But unpack that a little bit about Community should has have its space
or place in a sense.
What does that mean?
And what's place should that be?
It?
Probably depends, I assumed but love for you to unpack that a little,
I think this some people and I'm not like some Tweety go, like, try to
go out.
Anyone hear anything.
I think there's some people that want that want the world to be a
certain way and they advocate for that and that's perfectly fine and
my love.
The idea that Community is like the central tenet behind how
businesses organize themselves and how we sort ourselves aside today.
I love that idea.
I generally think of it from like, oh, this is the way the world is
today.
And that's a nice tea.
Like Community is a lot like many other things.
This one channel, one thing, an organization can pursue, and there's
upsides to it.
There's downsides to it.
And I think it plays a very specific role for
More kinds of organizations.
So I think for support I think Community is fantastic.
Answering those questions that aren't so broad.
They can be resolved by a help center article, but they aren't so nice
that they need a customer support rep.
I think it's fantastic at solving those kinds of questions and there's
and if you're the kind of organization gets a lot of those kinds of
like in between questions as I call them like yeah, I think then
increases fantastic.
I think Community is fantastic.
In certain spaces like the developers face.
Aces, you know, like it's incredible.
Communities are so critically important in those kind of communities.
I think, for you four, user groups are fantastic.
I think for like small exclusive groups of peer is, if you want to get
all the top people in your sector together, I think Community is
fantastic.
I think if you want to get people sharing the best expertise with
whatever you could find a structure, where everyone builds it audience
to feel the sense of inclusive.
Growth Community is fantastic.
I am less sure.
That
Community is going to take over the world.
I'm and it looked at me.
It depends how you define community, and we don't get to a semantic
debate.
But and I think Community plays a role like the way that that video
does Maybe video is what we've compared it.
Like videos can be fantastic.
They can help your all your organization, but you wouldn't say that
videos to the future of business of business and I think Community is
kind of like that.
Like it's really useful in certain situations and we should be
Be proud of that.
People want to advocate for more than that.
That's great for them.
I hope that they succeed, but the reality is it is that thing?
It's going to be a challenge.
Yeah, it's a good point is you maybe think because, you know, within
my organization, I'm very much obviously, the advocate of all things
Community because, you know, that's my role is what I do.
And sometimes I do think I go overboard, you know, because I'll get
I'll think of these tactic kind of things.
Oh my God, this Tech is gonna draw.
I have some really cool engagement and sometimes it does and sometimes
it doesn't, you know, but I get so excited the moment.
Then the next day.
I think I did this thing the next day.
I'm like, maybe I shoulda done this thing.
You know, you did it wasn't as great as I thought, you know, or
whatever.
And I think you just have to kind of, you know, tone yourself down a
little bit and kind of look at reality and say, you know, Community is
going to accomplish these things at them organization.
I'm going to show the value of those things.
And so as I love that, as really
Good.
So another kind of thing that has been going around and I saw a tweet
of the day from you but was kind of this web, three kind of stuff.
You know, I think it was probably four or five weeks ago and you
tweeted about it, but I'm intrigued on, you know, where does community
play in web three and how do we get there from web to 23?
Does that make sense?
So, I mean, yeah, but let me ask you a question, you know, that is the
setup.
But like, what is web three?
Yeah, you know, it, and I know it's funny because whenever you tell
you that as like what is, what three anyways.
So, I did a Google search.
So I was like, I don't know what it is.
And apparently, from what I read.
It's about people having their own space, right?
So the Googles and the Microsoft's, and the
People that own the web today, basically are not necessarily going to
own the web today, you know, we're going to own the web and we're
gonna have a piece of it.
It's cryptocurrency and whatever.
All this other stuff is coming out and it's going to change the world
and it's not that I don't think it won't change the world because it's
they're probably to some degree on to something.
I agree with that that there's probably is a surge of Web 2.0 web 3.0
there is maybe but but I don't know, you know, five years from now.
Out it all changes.
What we think.
We're three is today.
Doesn't mean that's what three is, you know, several years from now.
Nobody knew that, you know, Google what's going to be the main search
for all time.
I remember when Microsoft and wasn't being 90 was Internet Explorer.
I do something whatever they had.
No was kind of the search thing.
And now nobody, nobody really cares about what being as you know,
everybody cares about what Google and YouTube, Just School Taking Over
YouTube and video and just all the stuff Web 2.0.
Oh, kind of rot.
Nobody knew all that stuff was going to happen, right?
You know, so I don't even know, just don't.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, let me do it.
I'm sorry to interrupt you.
But like I feel like one.
So I think we've whipped through it's a very broad term and it can
mean a variety of different things.
And so I don't like discussing it like in a whole web three sure you
have writing a tweet, I can try.
But when I think of web three, I'm guessing that people think about
the metaverse.
I'm guessing they think about crypto and blockchains and maybe
Stuff.
But those are the things that cover most of me.
I can't think what else?
I'm sure I'm missing.
One blockchains crypto.
Anything else.
I don't think so met ever met a mace, but maybe there's no.
So if I think about the community work I'm doing, and that it's really
work.
I see most people doing, I don't see that turning into the metaverse
because it increases the effort required to participate.
The moment.
You have to put on a headset to
dissipate.
I think it makes it more difficult, more expensive and I don't see it
as an immediate.
I might be wrong.
I don't see it as an immediate change crypto.
I mean I wouldn't pretend to be an expert.
I think there's some interesting stuff.
There's some novel stuff that's going on.
But again, I mean, if you were this if you would think about social
media as well like and for the lat/long with the work that you do and
I do it has actually changed.
That you can work in terms of having a hosted online community.
Yeah, you might promote stuff from Twitter.
You might have single site sign on, but I wouldn't say this being a
profound change.
There's just more competition for budgets, really?
Like, I don't think it's had an insane change ab and went through.
I think is kind of the same.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
Like, I think, I think there's some very interesting stuff going on in
communities, feel good.
People of web three, folks.
Yeah, but if they've got that kind of crossing the chasm machine,
right?
We're like, you've got all this Buzz here.
You've got the mainstream
Here, is it going to jump across?
I don't know.
I think if it is it has to be a lot easier to use.
I think I'm not too sure at the moment, Howard our work.
So I don't know how to like get tokens.
I don't know.
Maybe I get the basic concept of it, but I don't, I don't even know
where to go.
And if I don't know it then, I mean, I'm not the most technologically
savvy person but like, there's a lot of people behind me in that line.
It's so that's me.
Yeah, I would also say, like, a lot of people haven't mastered like
went to you like, but
For anyone of us building a community outside of Webster day begins
think about web three, we've got so many more things to work.
Our we've got improved like the super user programs to reach that
we're developing.
We've got to improve the data that we are collecting and analyzing
about communities.
We've got to improve the user experience of the community is like, if
I were to do like a study of almost any Community with you, on a lot
of these web three doesn't come up ever at all.
No one even thinks about.
I've never been on an interview with members that I've done probably
1,000.
These over the last decade with that.
Like yeah, I wish I was walking along it in a virtual world.
I could engage with members like no, they're not like, oh, I wish I
had some distributed database with a ledger that could be fake.
I mean like no one lets go out what they want.
I like quicker responses, better responses more.
Access to staff better navigation.
And I feel like there's priorities here before we get excited about
the shiny new thing.
And the final thing I would say like being a bit slide here is the
seems to be this.
He pulled are always promoting the new thing like the as there was
like these Zeitgeist as you know, we're like this is a new thing and
you get a lot of attention by saying this is the future of everything
on.
This is the big new new thing but you never actually have to prove it
because by the time it it's not always turns out to be so like it
moves on to the next thing.
And so yeah, I like I like people that just knuckle down and do the
work to be honest, certainly improve their communities, you know, one
step at a time.
I'm systematic about it, you know.
They get the result to show the results web three.
I hope it works out well for them.
It's not a priority for me at this time because I can't see a
practical use for.
Yeah, I can't see a practical, use for it for the kind of work that
I'm doing in other people like me or do ya know?
Yeah, I see it.
This is extremely immature at the moment, right?
Like, that whole concept and thinking and potentially and he could
easily mature in the next few years, three, four, five years.
Yeah.
Misha, you know, and we'll kind of see, you know, something you
mentioned the other day is again, it's a tweet because I follow your
stuff.
Usually you put like five tweets into one.
So it's actually really helpful.
No, I mean, how do you, how do you get the word out?
But you mentioned something about, you know, you're changing your mind
about how they can't.
Exactly remember the, the whole bit was around the social peace and
Community, managers, and social people, and how they engage in.
Iraq and kind of the, you know, would like to know a little bit more
about that because I'm, I've always had this debate of and it's even
true today.
Like what I do and Community is completely different than what our
social media person does today, right, you know, our social media
person just pushes out content, you know, about the brand, you know,
and there's people that follow it, that might even tweet about it
every now and then, but I don't see our social team that engaging, to
be honest.
You are people, you know, they're just wanted to push out content
about the brand and hopefully that changes
Engines and and maybe with an influence of community.
I can help change that.
So I, I'm interested to kind of hear your thoughts about kind of
social person, social media person versus Community or how you're
seeing those kind of intertwined.
In some ways, the take that back to like, I think a bigger prints were
priced.
Like, so I think what I tried to do with favor be in the tiny team, I
have is be data-driven about our work.
Like I know that's a unique thing.
I think we speak.
We invest a lot of time.
I've got one person, just looks at data the entire day.
You know, that's his full-time job, Pavel hype.
And everyone says that the, that their data driven, until they see
data that they don't like.
And then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, I don't like that data.
So I'm going to ignore it and go away for anyway, so an example, like
we worked with a client yoga and they wanted to build a community not
about themselves, but for their topic that they were in, so people
could talk about that topic, which
Human resources and we did survey after survey.
We did surveys.
We did interview after interview with members and what they're saying
is is that we want a community to discuss the product to your that's
what we that's what we want.
So we looked at that data, we presented to the client and they said no
we don't do that.
We want to build a community of people to discuss the topic despite
all the competition, despite all those things.
And I think it's easy to be data-driven until you get date.
Either one and social media.
Is a lot like this is where social media comes into it because for
years beginning like I began the Vlog in 2008 and I was always very
clear.
We don't do social media because that is an audience.
You know, that's not a community of people engage with each other.
Social media is that you blast out a message and maybe people will
react to it.
Yeah, um, and then we began getting the data and when we do the
interviews of members and surveys, I kept hearing so often like yes, I
participate in a client community.
On a Facebook and Twitter and on the forums.
And as I know how came up so often that it's very clear that the
audience doesn't make that distinction that we do.
And I'm also very wide that we're going to be like those people that
used to sell ice when the road when the reef route, when the
refrigerator's in the fridge, freezers K came along where we just can
find ourselves out of date.
Because we had this like purest view of what community is and some
quite mindful of that.
And so I think communities what our audience thinks it is and it's
very hard to change what I audience thinks.
And I think the reason why I feel we get some of the results from
clients that we do is that we follow the data, even when it tells us
things that we don't like and this is one of those situations where it
makes far more sense to be like, okay if they think of it as a
community on social media and Twitter, how they engage with us on
other channels.
Let's work with that.
Let's work with that, because that's what they want.
I mean, let's find a way to work this.
Should media team with a mafia team and also it's kind of weird when
they have when a member of the audience has a conversation in the
community.
The community of one member of Staff, has a conversation with someone
on my Twitter account and there's no connection.
They like they'll feel a little bit of grief that way you don't know
who I am, you know, I've made 5,000 Post in your community and you
don't know who I am and luckily there's there's pause and Technologies
like or B that are making that a lot easier.
But yeah, I think so.
Social media should be part.
I should be MC.
I don't think it has to be part of our work, but I don't think that we
should reject it because we have some purest notion of what community
is.
Okay, that makes that that doesn't make complete sense.
And what was that technology?
You said?
Open em Pi T.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's quite cool as planning around this one issue.
They bring like all of the discussions about swept into a other tools
that do it, but orbits is, I think that's the company.
I talk to you that.
I was telling you about earlier.
It's a matter of fact.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so they said, yeah, they're too easy.
That's, that's good to know so many, you know, maybe I'll think about
investing in something like that because it really would be
interesting to see where customers are engaging, you know, and how
they engage in these.
Different areas.
They are, there are actual example of a company that it's just came
out of no of nowhere near, you kind of hear about them.
And those sort of like one now.
They have like a free like a free trial.
So it's trying that out.
And, Yeah, simple.
What kind of like it?
I'm not an expert in using the tool yet, but I'm like, yeah, I kind of
like it.
There's some Simplicity, they get interesting data out of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your your data Guru and you and I like that about you, you know, but I
think you know, data.
Data, sometimes it's really hard to get.
You made a couple of points.
One is some people.
When they, when you start looking at the data, they didn't like what
you, what they saw, and they didn't want to go that direction.
But that's an interesting point.
Maybe it's because they don't know how to deal with what they just
saw.
You know what I mean?
When I think of probably to get off topic a little bit, but when I
think of getting data out of my community today and and there's
certain things that you can get out that are easy, whether it's inside
the platform or whether it's on Google analytics, but time.
Data into real business outcomes and and saying, these are the
problems one that we're trying to solve.
Here's how we're solving it.
And here's all the data to around that telling that story is sometimes
very difficult to do and it could be because of disparage system.
So for example, if you have a support Community, you know, case
deflection is the typical thing you talk about.
But you know what, it's one of the hardest it's really hard to do, you
know, it seems to be hard to do because one is if your systems aren't
connected one, you know, and you're not
You know, so when I say connection it could be Enterprise search.
So is your search connected to your report.
Portal, is your on your community is all those things connected and
then, are you going to looking at case deflection hard cased fighting
to get soft case deflection?
Looking at Google analytics.
How long do they stay on the page?
What are they looking at all that kind of stuff?
And then tying it all back, those things aren't easy to do because it
takes one Investments and then it takes to.
As you have the people to be able to, you know, kind of say, you know,
Dan, you know that.
To get completely off, but that piece, just that piece is hard to do,
you know what I mean?
And, and maybe you've seen it done in a lot.
What would you say to that?
You know what an honest.
Because, you know, you've done this a lot.
When a government does like a major initiative like in a community to
reduce crime, they also know that they have to set aside some money to
evaluate if it works or not, and you want to know, like, did you
initiatives succeed or fail and they set aside like a small pot of
money compared to the total range of the project to evaluate.
If it worked, the problem in community is that the community platforms
aren't really designed to tell us the return on investment in any real
metric that matters.
I think chorus does.
Okay, which platform you're on call.
So I'll I had a g.
Yeah.
Um, so course kind of does okay, but even that me, I don't like
dumping anyone, but, like, even that there's a lot of room for
improvement.
Yeah, and the problem is, that evaluation is hard and takes time.
I'll give you an example with higher logic.
So there's a client on higher on high allergic.
We're working with now because we can work with them to measure the
ROI of the community.
Such as what is the
The relationship between people that participate in a community and
their retention rate and what they sign up form or more courses or
not.
And it means we've got to combine data from higher logic.
Got to combine data from Salesforce.
You got to combine data from the course, modules as well, all into one
place.
So, I'm and that takes time.
And so for us, I'll be upfront about the numbers here, like that was
around 100 hours of work.
So for us, that's immediately like a 15 to 20 grand project are, you
know, that's, yeah.
That's not an incidentally, an insignificant amount of money.
I get that.
And so a lot of clients don't have that money and like we can do it.
We can really show the impact, you know, but it's also a downside hit
like the results.
Why not, tell you what he wanted here and the idea that you like and
that's a challenge as well.
Like we've done the studies before where we do the study.
We and we present the results of the clients can like, yeah.
I'm not tell him I see you.
Yeah, you know because
There's one client year and a half ago.
We worked on the ROI and then they came back and said that the ROI was
was so high.
It was unbelievable.
And they asked us to tone it down and it's absolutely enough to change
the methodology to hit a Target.
You know, that, that makes no sense.
If you have an issue with the methodology, you do it while you're
discussing the methodology, but like, that's the challenge at the
moment that we don't take the evaluation suits suits, seriously at
all, and because
We don't we never get the data.
We need to prove the value of the work.
We do in a conclusive way and there's been a lot of like we did a
project, two years ago, where we took a community down almost for a
couple of months.
Ah, yes.
That was excellent.
By the way.
Sorry.
Yep.
Thanks.
I like, there's a Harvard Business case review on that if you want to
share some point, but like that is the definitive that is absolutely
100%.
Beautiful into proof, but you
You need nerves of Steel and you need to be able to honestly afford
the fee of us or people like us to be able to get those results.
So it comes down to money and we're so excited about getting a
community up and running that we don't ever set aside a pot of money
to see if it works.
And we really should because what not also like we don't just tell you
something, like any data person, doesn't just tell you whether your
community generated our way.
They can tell you specifically, you know, there's a leveling off
period and most of
Is where where the relationship between purchases or retention rates
are kind of like, steady for a while, they're going up and then they
love, they love love knowing where that point is important because
then, you know that you can design a whole onboarding system
specifically for that.
So once you get to this point, that's the level where you need to get
a number two, more than that, then the value doesn't increase.
And so, once you have all this data in one data set, it becomes so
much easier to draw our interesting conclusions from it.
And
A platforms, don't do this, I think because it's not really their
business model.
They want you to look at the level of engagement stuff also because
it's so much work.
Like the higher logic product.
For example, we've got to pull that data and then we have to clean it,
not just from higher logic from other platforms as well, because every
data set is different.
Some people don't always use the same names you have.
Do you have, do you have duplicate names in there?
Some people forget their password and they create a second account and
third down there.
It'll suddenly becomes like it takes less worst weather.
Kids, that's why I don't think a platform bed with is ever going to be
able to do this.
Well, because the intricacies of each different companies, sister will
of whether track customers are all that just makes it so difficult.
So it's an individual as a custom left, but you've got to set aside
the money if you want the results.
Now, it's a good point and, you know, I've been pushing and I try to
push not just higher logic, but other platforms into innovating a
little bit, you know, if they're not going to be
To come up with kind of the data that you're talking about and give us
ways to make that easy to get that data, you know, whether it's apis
or I don't know.
Whatever it is, you know, you have to be able to yeah connect to those
businesses.
Seems to make that happen and I believe in maybe I'm completely wrong.
But when I look at the Innovative things that are going on in the
platform space, I'm not really seeing it.
Like, I just see basic shit and you know, it's just, you know, forums
blogs, those kinds of things and
And I just am like what's what can we do to kind of help, you know the
weight like engagement?
One of the hardest things that and I know I'm getting off a little
bit.
But you know, is is engagement, you know, and creating that whole
engaging, you know, customer journey and all these other things, you
know, why can't, you know, these platforms make that super easy for us
to do, you know, have templates have whatever.
Say, you know, this is how you do it, you know, and and, you know,
just the basic shit, you know, like people like videos or, you know,
quick.
Videos, or whatever.
I don't know.
Like, can you build that into the platform?
That makes it easy to kind of do some of that, maybe you add some
social type things to some of these, I mean, probably a B2B Community
like mine is probably not going to get on there and do these weird
dances and stuff like that on, you know, on the platform.
But I mean still video.
I don't know.
Integrating anything that is engaging and easy to do and that kind of
stuff.
I think their platforms can do a better job in that.
That's my
No, I'm not, you know, and if I really, and I'm sure you have some
thoughts and maybe even know who's kind of up and coming, you know, in
that that area.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think a major innovation in this space to be so disruptive
that no one was to disrupt themselves.
And I think that's probably part of it.
And it's like, that's not an unfamiliar story.
You know, I think it's effective and it's always easier to talk about
this from like the outside, you know, like it's true.
So I think platform vendors, it feels like the products.
They're offering all kind of the same with this point.
There's some differences like Salesforce obviously has a completely
different structure to some of the other communities and now they're
trying to compete on services and integration with social media and
other channels and with high logic automation with it inside.
Its customer success little fan, this kind of like little niche that
they're kind of pursuing but the product
This small difference between them but it's not huge.
They competing on services and having around the product itself
because yeah, definitely more.
And the problem I think is that if you don't I think a lot of people
that purchaser Community platform are doing it for the first time and
they don't really know the difference between a form and a good
forward.
They don't know if it's between gamefication, good gamification and
then fantastic game.
Game game application.
They don't the nuances having huge impact, but it's hard to know that.
To in the space and I wish we could do more projects of helping
clients pick the right platform.
But again, people don't want to pay for that because you know, it's
just not something that they want to go to deepen, and but the nuances
really matter.
And I think the Innovation is happening social media like things.
I think I think a lot of the Innovation comes from social media.
Yeah.
Stack o overflowed as a lot of interesting stuff.
I like what they do.
A lot of really interesting stuff.
Reddit, also doing some interesting stuff.
I don't know why it's not easy for every member to have like, a live
Blanco on Livestream.
Like that feels like something's happening.
But I don't know why we don't have a short video clips out easy to
post up what least integration what we can bring that content into a
community from social media.
Let's say it's like, you know, you think about canva, for example,
it's a place where you can just create a bunch of cool stuff, you
know, and, and then, how awesome would it be if it just kind of pushed
into the?
I don't know.
It just things.
Sort of like that.
You know, it just making things easier.
Yeah, there's one platform a while back that dis big announcement that
they're now offering groups like subgroups.
And like I remember that from like 10 years ago.
I gave her a choice easy.
I'm sure it's easy to look at my, I like my, I like my side be like,
oh, you should be better than this as this is always easy from the
outside.
I just don't feel.
I feel the space is ripe for disruption and I don't feel
That they keeping up with best practices and how people want to engage
with each other.
The and if you look to what the social media technologies that doing
with all the research and experience that I have, I believe looked
everything like which of these are critical to Bringing.
Yeah.
That I'll bet you.
That's why you're on because you just you have to the words that I
wanted to say is that that's exactly right man is it's ripe for
disruption, but you are seeing like, for example, higher logic, buying
vanilla forums,
And game Side by and inside it.
And so we're not seeing disruption.
We are seeing you know, some Acquisitions and some changes and I know
Kuro spot some social media companies a year or two ago, you know, and
so data company kind of stuff, you know what that looks like in the
future.
I don't know, but it will be interesting to see for sure.
So, here's a probably have like, I wish you all these companies.
The best of luck is great.
People can sell.
Out and, you know, get the rewards from there, but generally speaking,
like Acquisitions on a sign of innovation.
They're often the opposite where you're fighting for like, marking
for, like a market share by trying to acquire cut costs, and that
might not be the case what's happening here?
And also in the in the startup space with gang site, there might be
different, but I'm concerned.
I mean I don't want I want as much diversity as possible.
I want, as many like, the ideal situation for all of us is that
there's lots of
He's all fighting in innovating and each Sabbath office of a new and
unique.
And I don't think we have that and I think the fewer companies we have
the less Innovation.
We're going to have such good point as much as I love all of the
platform comes in cinnamon or Rich.
I really appreciate you coming on today.
And certainly thank you so much for having me.
Yeah.
I was just happy you said yes, so well, thank you everyone for another
peers over beers.
I'm Crystal and rich.
Thank you so much for
Coming from fee for me.
Thanks so much.
All right.
Take care.