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Chris and Dani had a discussion around Community-Led Growth. Is it just a buzzword? We think it is a buzzword, because companies have been doing "Community-Led Growth" for a long time. With that said, we do think it's important that organizations focus on this for the future. Chris goes over some of his ideas and shares it with Dani.
Checkout the YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/eBzm4gtSRpg
B2B Community Strategist Chris Detzel is your host for this fun and straight shooting podcast for enterprise community leaders / managers and digital savvy professionals. With easy and natural inquisitive banter, your host will tackle hard issues facing community leaders and managers in their day-to-day struggles, and yes, sometimes over a beer. From starting new communities, digitally transforming enterprise culture, moderation, and globalization techniques are all up for discussion.
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Chris Detzel: So, welcome to another peers over beers I’m Chris Detzel and not so special guest, but a guest either way.
Dani Weinstein: It was done.
Chris Detzel: it's good to have you here again.
Dani Weinstein: I was a pleasure.
yeah.
Chris Detzel: I love having you on the show.
Chris Detzel: Let people see the light actually here's a person again another smoky bar Dallas.
Chris Detzel: Or you know, maybe i'm cannot there some time he knows.
Chris Detzel: So yeah you know, we had a little pre show and talk a lot, a lot of different things that are going on in life and.
Chris Detzel: Community and that kind of stuff Luca and i've been talking a little bit about this on piers over beers is Community led growth, and you know.
Chris Detzel: Something that I brought up is you know I there's kind of two lines of thinking right like one is.
Chris Detzel: You know, rich tonight and said this kind of best is you know we Community led growth is somewhat of this buzzword in a way, or I think it is a buzzword and.
Chris Detzel: That you know you've seen it from a community leaders kind of take off and especially specifically a couple of companies but.
Chris Detzel: You know, rich said we've been doing this for a long time, you know, do you think companies really don't lead with Community lead growth i'm pretty sure they do, and he gave some examples, and you know I agree with that, but I also.
Chris Detzel: have been thinking about that a lot lately and and buzzword now buzzword i'm not sure, but you know what I do know is is that.
Chris Detzel: It does take off into organizations, I think it's a you know, like i've been bringing it up.
Chris Detzel: To like my CMO and and some of my peers and things like that and i'm not going to say it's taken off in the organization, but it has kind of some meat to it right, you know, and what that means, and you know you mentioned to me that you've been talking to some organizations around.
Chris Detzel: Community like growth and things like that love to kind of get your opinions on one is maybe a definition, what do you think Community led growth is and then two is do these organizations really want that, or do they even know what it is.
Chris Detzel: That kind of stuff.
Dani Weinstein: Absolutely, and so I think if we went out and surveyed 10 different companies were could 10 different answers around what community.
Dani Weinstein: leadership will flag, but I think you know the way I like to think about it is really, how do you.
Dani Weinstein: You know how do you harness, especially if you're a brand, how do you harness the power of your customers to you know drive value.
Dani Weinstein: That the aggregate for the ecosystem, with the power of the user base the power of the Community, you know more value for the user experience and ultimately more value for the brand and so again, I think, depending on who you talk to whether it's.
Dani Weinstein: You know, a VP marketing or.
Dani Weinstein: You know, wherever wherever one sits in the organization they're gonna have their own version of what that potentially looks like.
Dani Weinstein: I think you know, on one hand, encouraging pieces and again i've been talking to a lot of amazing brands, but they get small different different verticals from you know large massive global.
Dani Weinstein: tech titans to you know start up crypto companies to you know other SAS based B2B startups and I think what is common is that the value of community is certainly being embraced.
Dani Weinstein: When i'm working with, but I do think what i'm seeing is that that value of the perception of value, Sir, but certainly various on who you talk to him.
Dani Weinstein: And you know they're all the common theme here I think here is that they are definitely looking for leaders to help drive that Community lead like growth, so you know again it's quite for me i'm learning quite a bit about you know, the current space as far as.
Dani Weinstein: You know how higher how hiring is working or not working, and also.
Dani Weinstein: You know, really, what are these brands ultimately valuing in these positions so it's quite interesting.
Chris Detzel: That is interesting, and you know, as I kind of look at Community led growth, I like how you said it's kind of.
Chris Detzel: Yes, you're looking at your customers to help you know.
Chris Detzel: just put the brand out there more and things like that and giving them opportunity to do that, and you know some of that is right through customer advocacy and speaking engagements and all that stuff and.
Chris Detzel: I think that that is good and things i've been seeing around Community led growth and I really like it is you know enough to kind of describe.
Chris Detzel: How, where we are today is as an organization is you know we have these this technical Community that is really good, and you can use them as well, but i'm also kind of thinking about the whole space within let's say data, for example, and then, how do we.
Chris Detzel: find those it could be customer executive type people could be director levels, but it could be influencers or even in column prospects, or whatever.
Chris Detzel: Just people in the space and getting that Community engaged and involved and i've seen you know used to do that really well and I kind of.
Chris Detzel: I really liked it and I think we could do that as community leaders in our.
Chris Detzel: areas is remember Adrian you know from.
Chris Detzel: Receiving receive funnel forums, so what he would do is he didn't care if you bought their product and I don't care, you know, like he would just get us.
Chris Detzel: And he would interview us or he would you know get three or four of us and we'll do it panel, or maybe even get one of us to do a presentation and he would do one after another, I haven't seen him do that really but.
Chris Detzel: To me that's part of kind of you know, getting so he'd get community leaders together and he would have interviews with us, he would have it, live.
Chris Detzel: And then people would come and listen he recorded, you know how to even take it to another level, which I don't think they did.
Chris Detzel: But is how do you create quick hit videos on that quick hit you know push it into a podcast, how do you how do you start kind of thinking of blogs, that you can write specifically on.
Chris Detzel: Maybe their behalf, and things like that you know, so I think that you know it's it's elevating and evangelizing them as a person.
Chris Detzel: And as kind of the leader in that space and not even like for me, you know, the one thing I started kind of push.
Chris Detzel: Some of the start leadership stuff is like this one guy that is a thought leader in the data quality space here royalty I said all right.
Chris Detzel: You and I and get on the phone we're going to bring in people just from real to and whoever else wants to come first to try this out and.
Chris Detzel: One rule it's kind of like fight club don't talk about fight club, you know, but the rule was we don't talk about real to you know let's just talk about the space of data quality, I think you and i've kind of talked about this and.
Chris Detzel: We did it, this is last week and you know people would ask because they're from you know they using real to product and he said hey you know.
Chris Detzel: I promised Chris I wouldn't talk about realty i'll say this, and you know it's about our product and stuff because.
Chris Detzel: We do have something coming up that specifically about our product about data quality we'll talk about that in two weeks, then we'd go on and talk about the space right and so.
Chris Detzel: i'm trying to kind of introduce the idea and then start bringing people in you know outside of the realm teams, but you know I need to bring in thought leaders, whether they're from real to or not.
Chris Detzel: You know that talk about the space and then start getting and building that kind of stuff to me that's thought leadership, but also trying to get you know that that.
Chris Detzel: line of thinking into one our technical community, but to is then over time, I want to start getting even the higher level folks you know thinking about the space and then talking about what they're doing in that space that makes sense.
So those.
Chris Detzel: What do you think is that a good way to kind of go about it or.
Dani Weinstein: I think it is, I mean certainly having a cross functional cross set of.
Dani Weinstein: You know thought leaders to talk about that and get different perspectives is certainly good.
Dani Weinstein: I think again, it goes back to.
Dani Weinstein: You know how many letters being five at the relevant organization and putting you know the data and the value behind lance.
Dani Weinstein: To demonstrate that because I.
Dani Weinstein: think it could be articulated several different ways.
Chris Detzel: Yes, it's a good point and I think that it's going to sit here and think about it, you know, one of the things i've been trying to do is.
Chris Detzel: How do I integrate this more you know you're right it's data and is this really working, how can we tell if this is working and things like that, and I agree, but if you don't try it it's not going to work right and and I think that.
Chris Detzel: One of the things that I did was in this extremely difficult because.
Chris Detzel: it's just hard to kind of think about like you know when you look at marketing, for example, marketing.
Chris Detzel: team is doing campaigns and they're doing all kinds of different things and they're focused in on this one thing for six weeks.
Chris Detzel: Then they're focused on this next thing for six weeks, you know and themes and things like that, and so, how does Community fit into some of that sometimes it just doesn't you know, sometimes it does.
Chris Detzel: i'll give a little story because it's so relevant is a so I was reaching out to Community members.
Chris Detzel: Over the last several weeks or months and somebody bit the question or the question to them was hey i'm looking at doing you know.
Chris Detzel: I was looking at doing a Community show a column in a webinars but a Community show around some different areas are you interested in doing it.
Chris Detzel: And then, one of our insurance companies said yeah i'll do it, I said, are you gonna be it's gonna be public and to be in front of Okay, it was perfectly because we're doing a big campaign around this right, and so this guy gets on this is like we can half ago, I think.
Chris Detzel: He gets on We probably have I don't know 8090 people on and then.
Chris Detzel: So you know, it was a pretty good mix of people some prospects customers partners, etc, please course came and then.
Chris Detzel: He talked about the competition and why they why he chose rel to versus all the stuff I was like to me that was really good now it wasn't exactly what as like to i'm glad he did it in everybody loved it in their organization.
Chris Detzel: But I also didn't mind that he if he didn't want to talk about real to and just want to talk about a hot topic of master data management in general, he could have he didn't but he talks specifically about relatively talked about.
Chris Detzel: Why they selected real to why they ripped and replace one vendor out to another to us, and all this stuff talked about the roadmap where they're going where they're headed.
Chris Detzel: It was beautiful, because then I get to create one I had to create some quick have videos that that the marketing team use they use this whole insurance campaign around this case study, you know that was on video.
Chris Detzel: And, and you know i'm going to create a blog on his behalf getting that written now and so i'm gonna have him look at it and he's gonna i'm gonna have him i'll post it on his behalf right like.
Chris Detzel: His name and everything else.
Chris Detzel: What i'm trying to do is amplify the voice of the customer like yeah i'm glad it's gonna work out for all to, but I believe that.
Chris Detzel: So it's a win, win, but I also believe that it's a win, win if it was just about what this customer is doing around master data management or whatever the.
Chris Detzel: key area is because your customers, when you when they'll talk more about you they'll talk more about that you know they become the expert in that kind of stuff if I can highlight them as the expert.
Chris Detzel: You know, and so that's one story to where you know we can now kind of you know, once this campaign is over we'll be able to track, it will see how many.
Chris Detzel: leads came in and all these kinds of things which is really good and very well that day, you know into this campaign, and I think that that is important to kind of think about and I did.
Chris Detzel: But it also get a little lucky right, you know so and i'm going to try to do more, of those and Magnus a case study but more getting those people out to start talking about their journey within the master data management space to make sense.
Dani Weinstein: So, and I think that's kind of the balancing act when, especially when you're dealing with marketing because they're.
Dani Weinstein: You know they kind of are have two big focuses one is is generating leads.
Dani Weinstein: yeah and to nurturing existing accounts, and I think that you know from a Community lead perspective.
Dani Weinstein: The latter is really where the heavy focus is going to be.
Dani Weinstein: Because it's really about nurturing that relationship with your existing customer base and leveraging their influence their passion.
Dani Weinstein: Their network to help you know drive more business that their existing cast but also influencing their peers and even people who may be new to your brand and I think that's where I think some of the marketeers have trouble or challenges with or even.
Dani Weinstein: don't see eye to eye with community leaders.
Dani Weinstein: As relates to where you know the bad Community comes in.
Dani Weinstein: And so that's that's always been a fun challenge, but I think it's one that you know we're you know we're kind of charged with doing, because you know, at the end of the day, I think, educating marketing on on.
Dani Weinstein: On that value and not necessarily being solely focused on on legion is critical for you know Community success but also that's that's the core elements here Community leadership.
Chris Detzel: I like that a lot, I, like you said that because you know, one of the things that I feel like marketing doesn't.
Chris Detzel: it's not that they don't want to, but you know a lot of times they're slowly or put more of their efforts into kind of the new business new leads, you know new opportunities, you know that are outside of the existing customer base.
Chris Detzel: And i've always said, you know.
Chris Detzel: it's a lot harder to get new business that is keeping the existing business and going deeper and wider to the existing you know, and so, if we put more focus in on that you know.
Chris Detzel: Just think, well, we can do, but it it's a balancing act for them, you know, but it is hard you know because i'm actually in marketing.
Chris Detzel: To.
Chris Detzel: to educate and push people to kind of think it's you know Community led growth.
Chris Detzel: And it is man, it sometimes it's like gosh you know.
Chris Detzel: What can I do, and I think one is, you have to educate but it's more than, that is, you have to show value in a big way and show how that's true.
Chris Detzel: And sometimes if you're doing it alone or you feel like you're alone, it feels impossible, you know what I mean and so.
Chris Detzel: You just got to think of different ways to engage different people within the organization to get what you're trying to to to get to net.
Chris Detzel: you're not going to convince somebody to do something if they're already their mind is made up so.
Chris Detzel: You know, it just I think you just have to go other ways around it and then over time as you're showing value in other ways they'll start seeing it and they'll be like I want some of that you know.
Dani Weinstein: yeah and you know it goes back to again looking at you know really understanding.
Dani Weinstein: Your peer where they'd be marketing or engineering or fall on client services or customer success, how are they you know how How are they being measured what is success, how do they define success.
Dani Weinstein: Because you've got to be able to find that that overlap and that synergy with the value that Community land is going to provide.
Chris Detzel: Yes.
Dani Weinstein: And it resonates with you know your appear so that you can get them on board to say hey, this is the value that's going to bring this is how it's going to impact your metrics.
Dani Weinstein: I think if you're not able to do that it's going to be a much more difficult conversation and partnership.
Chris Detzel: When you go to speak the same link or you the challenge don is, I feel like we're always having to speak, there you know somebody else's language.
Chris Detzel: But I mean, and you know I think there needs to be more of a partnership, you know I.
Chris Detzel: I agree that you know if i'm talking to marketing person, and I should be talking about pipeline and.
Chris Detzel: Other things like that right leads lead gen etc, you know and community can certainly bring in that you know, and then, when you're talking to support you talk about support deflection and.
Chris Detzel: You know how we can help you know with that and etc, you can speak the language of the department you're in I mean if it's product it's ideation it's how we can help you make your product better its adoption of the product and.
Chris Detzel: Things like that you know CSM it's.
Chris Detzel: What about you know upsell cross sell adoption, etc, you know so it's all those things, I agree, but sometimes I just think, why is it always me trying to speak their language want to fucking you speak.
Chris Detzel: My language.
Chris Detzel: You know.
Chris Detzel: Now it is what it is and that's what leadership is and that's I think part of.
Chris Detzel: The challenge with Community even today is people still don't get it, you know, like I and maybe sometimes we don't get it.
Chris Detzel: Like maybe we should focus in on this thing, whatever it is, and go after that thing and then say hey see okay that's great yes, I see it, boom there's the value here's.
Chris Detzel: here's the business outcomes here's those things okay good next boom, you know I mean like well I could do all these things, it can, but you know i've tried to say.
Chris Detzel: yay can do all these things, but you know it's just me or you know if you have only one or two other people, we can focus in on these things, and this is what we're going to go focus in on so you know that's I think that's always a challenge Community led growth.
Chris Detzel: A huge opportunity, I think, and you know, to me it means a lot of different things, it could mean all the things same things that we've been talking about for years support deflection that's Community like growth when customers are answering questions for you that's great.
Chris Detzel: that's not the sexy people like to hear.
Chris Detzel: You know some of the things i've heard in the past.
Chris Detzel: The recent passes.
Chris Detzel: You know this is old thing of support deflection but more Community is more than that true can be you know for sure depends on the type of Community it is and what you want to build.
Chris Detzel: You know, but you know that to me, is still a huge opportunity, you know, especially when you, you know can track it and all that kind of stuff so i've talked a lot sorry about that.
Chris Detzel: What.
Chris Detzel: What do you think any thoughts there around all that shit that I just said.
Dani Weinstein: No it's you know it's spot on I think again, it goes back to.
Dani Weinstein: I think there's a lot of noise on this topic and I think that you know, having folks like yourself and me and others bring things back to you know focus lens of clarity is incredibly important.
Dani Weinstein: And it's you know, I think, for, in order for us to improve ourselves and into elevate the industry we've got to be able to have that consistent talk and really talk to.
Dani Weinstein: them making connecting those dots in the value add and really showing you know why it's Community live and the value that it brings.
Chris Detzel: Did you go to the.
Chris Detzel: I guess Community led growth conference or whatever that.
Chris Detzel: Brian and so blinkers part of and things like that.
Dani Weinstein: quite a bit of it on my calendar, I had a lot of interviews have gotten my way.
Chris Detzel: So how.
Dani Weinstein: Does that time but i'm gonna go back and look at some of the recordings I did spend a fair amount of time of day one, so so brian's talk and a couple others, and then the one I really wanted to see which I haven't seen yet i'm gonna go back watch the replays was OPS team.
Chris Detzel: yeah yeah.
Dani Weinstein: Because that that certainly wasn't sure that was great.
Dani Weinstein: And then you know but yeah I didn't have a lot of time spent last couple days.
Chris Detzel: just going to new right, you know you get.
Chris Detzel: Evan I guess Hamilton as kind of a.
Chris Detzel: director over there now moving from.
Chris Detzel: bless you.
Chris Detzel: Nice you've got what's your name that just moved from Alaska and I think she was on a.
Dani Weinstein: rock star team, I mean so they don't.
Dani Weinstein: Even Hamilton we didn't now you've got Eric Moss that went over there.
Chris Detzel: And come off yep.
yep.
Dani Weinstein: You know shannon's been over there.
And yeah.
Dani Weinstein: I met her actually at an emphasis stephanie Garrett know it's.
Dani Weinstein: visually see your face in a second.
Dani Weinstein: yeah.
Chris Detzel: I mean so i'm sure that will be interesting to hear for sure you know, and I think more interesting will be.
Chris Detzel: To as that team has time to gel and work together and what is it that they're going to do in the future, you know and talk to them like six months from now, I think that will be kind of a fun conversation.
Chris Detzel: They don't try to get them honor some of mine anyways.
Dani Weinstein: Christina car that.
Chris Detzel: yep yep.
Dani Weinstein: that's the Romney got you know Christina Erica shanna Evan.
Dani Weinstein: Pretty.
Dani Weinstein: The real power houses.
Chris Detzel: yeah so I mean you know how fun would that be man you just have a powerhouse Community team that knows everything that they're doing and they company let you imma stick what you can accomplish something like that.
Dani Weinstein: yeah well what's about time I had that when I was back in a few days we had a pretty pretty amazing rock star team that grew over time yeah that'd be great to to build that out again.
Chris Detzel: I agree, next time I hire somebody i'm going to hire a rock star.
Chris Detzel: yeah.
Chris Detzel: But.
Chris Detzel: Well done it's been good man.
Dani Weinstein: always a pleasure.
Chris Detzel: You mentioned that you're doing some interviews and things like that what what's up.
Dani Weinstein: yeah so you know the the job hunting process as long it's always longer than that people expect, especially for us folks that are, I would like to call experience and it's quite interesting, especially now to get in market, I think that you know, a couple of key learnings which.
Dani Weinstein: i've certainly internalized last few rounds, is that you know we have value right there, and you need to be able to ask your value if you don't ask you're not going to get.
Dani Weinstein: done so that's certainly you know most most friends i've talked to her not sneezing it that they're ready to step up to the plate i'm also finding that as going through the you know going through the process that.
Dani Weinstein: Even some brands that think they know what they want to do they ultimately have to pivot that change direction something happens internally or they're not even sure what they want.
Dani Weinstein: And so that's just part of the you know, in many cases that has nothing specifically to do with with you the individual.
Dani Weinstein: yeah but you know i'm very encouraged about where i'm at I mean discussions with several great brands, both large and small and.
Dani Weinstein: Hopefully, the next appears over beers will have a good news to share, I will say.
Chris Detzel: Hope so man, I was hoping when I get on today as, like are you talking done and see what's going on.
Chris Detzel: Well something's something ago I do know that.
Chris Detzel: You know, going through that process i've done it before and it's it's a time suck one it's like a full time job and then two is.
Chris Detzel: it's really you never know what they're looking for you just don't like you could be you know I know you're a great candidate, I know you do a great job but.
Chris Detzel: They don't know it, and then they have like 10 other people that have opinions about it, you know and so there's a little bit of a lot there's a lot of skill and you've just gotta you know it is, I mean you've done it before even in the past right so having to go through it again.
Chris Detzel: No more than anybody.
Chris Detzel: But I think that's kind of the lesson to me is that you know don't give up, you know, keep going something's going on something's going to happen, you just gotta.
Chris Detzel: keep going at it, you know and it's not like you have the lack of skill, you know I mean and and even at the level yours it's probably a little bit more or.
Chris Detzel: Less is you've got to be one selective, but to is those positions that you're going after are harder to get.
Chris Detzel: You know at that level of what you're trying to so that's that's also the thing is you're not going for a Community manager job you know you're going for director senior director VP I don't know whatever.
Chris Detzel: You know, head of that kind of stuff so it's a little bit difficult, you know but.
Chris Detzel: You know, once you get it it'd be worth it.
Dani Weinstein: The thing is that you know the roles are out there and yeah you know, just as they are interviewing me i'm interviewing them, and you know it's it's a process and it takes longer than expected.
Dani Weinstein: get a lot of patience.
Dani Weinstein: I know there's some great that's you know i'm going to end up in a great place with a great roles so.
Dani Weinstein: it's just a question of time.
Dani Weinstein: And if it doesn't happen, you know, the next few months or quarters, then maybe time for me to open up shop but we'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Chris Detzel: yeah start building that website and some other things, and just see what happens pretty pretty you know cheap to do it.
Dani Weinstein: Out of.
Dani Weinstein: The office of the table.
Chris Detzel: So what is been good, I really appreciate you coming on again we'll do this again in another month or so, but.
Chris Detzel: Thanks everyone for.
Chris Detzel: Coming to another peers over beers i'm Chris Detzel and.
Dani Weinstein: thanks again Chris have a great holiday weekend.
You too.