Lots of studies have demonstrated the power of Fox News. For example, here's one from June of 2020 showing that in places where Fox News is easier to get (by having a lower position on the cable dial), more people ignored advice about staying at home and wearing masks in the early stages of COVID-19. This was the period in mid-March when Fox News was telling everyone that the pandemic was nothing to worry about.
Future studies will undoubtedly find that in places where Fox News is more widely available, more people also believed that the 2020 election had been stolen. Nick Kristof gets it:
Fox helped sell Trump’s lie about a stolen election, propelling true believers like Ashli Babbitt — a fan of Fox personalities like Tucker Carlson — to storm the Capitol. Babbitt died in the attack, while this week Fox Corporation merrily reported a 17 percent jump in quarterly earnings.
....We can’t impeach Fox or put Carlson or Sean Hannity on trial in the Senate, but there are steps we can take....The Fox News business model depends not so much on advertising as on cable subscription fees. So a second step is to call on cable companies to drop Fox News from basic cable TV packages. The issue here is that if you’re like many Americans, you: A) don’t watch Fox News, and B) still subsidize Fox News.
If you buy a basic cable package, you’re forced to pay about $20 a year for Fox News. You may deplore bigots and promoters of insurrection, but you help pay their salaries.
I've talked about this before, and I'm still skeptical about whether this could work. At the very least it would be very slow since even if big cable companies fought back against Fox, the earliest it could happen is whenever their current contracts come up for renewal.
Still, it does seem like the only tactic with much likelihood of success. And if it takes a few years, that just means we have lots of time to make Fox a pariah.
Fox News is the reason I can never join in the mockery of rank-and-file Republicans who believe in stuff like stolen elections and socialists coming to take over America. They don't believe this stuff because they're idiots, they believe it because they hear it over and over and over from folks on TV who wear suits and ties and act like news anchors. It's the suits and their bosses who are to blame, not anything about the cultural pathologies of the white working class.
When Kristof's company allows Republican commentary on its op-ed pages, and CBS stops peddling falsehoods like the Killian papers, the audience for Fox News will fade away. Until then, he has no credibility.
Comparing CBS to Fox "News" is comical. And so is your assertion that right-wing propaganda will just "fade away" because excellent journalism is out there.
Because it's already out there and always has been.
The 'falsehoods' ... of course, no one ever disproves the assertions. Just the documents. You ever wonder why a Republican operative might be involved in forging real documents?
Umm, the New York Times has Ross Douthat, David Brooks and Bret Stephens on its op-Ed pages.
Yes, but it also had Comments ripping them new ones when they cross the line.
Really short skirts, too.
RIP LARRY FLYNT
Has to be an hard loss to process for someone like OutKuckTheCoverage maestro KKKlay Travis. On one hand, the Hustler founder was a Southern good ol' boy (Kentucky born) who loved bazongas n' gash more than anything, but on the other hand, he took the greatest delight in voyeuristically pwning Republican values voters & elected officials.
KKKlay has to be wondering where the rightwing (economic AND social conservative) smut peddlers are.
That study may have it backwards - consider that local cable providers may place Fox News lower on the cable dial precisely BECAUSE many of their viewers are the one's who believe in conspiracies and that their taxes are going to prop up liberals in blue states instead of the other way around. The local cable operators are neither passive nor stupid.
Yeah, I think that we should all remember that "correlation is not necessarily causation".
Fox News is likely going to be more readily available in places that are more conservative, and more likely to fight wearing masks.
Also, isn't Fox News watched by only a few million people? In a country with 325 million, a couple million people isn't going to have much of an effect. And even less of an effect because most of those viewers are older people who don't do much.
Yeah, Fox News is bad. But please resist the temptation to blame it for everything wrong in America. Stupidity existed in America long before cable news. And it will exist long after.
Sure, a few million people.
Compared with what, tho?
Nobody has to watch Fox News - people do it by choice because it tells them what they want to hear. What they want to hear is mostly reinforcement of their prejudices about race, religion and regionality. People who watch Fox are just not very interested in determining what the actual facts are, and that is because the biases are so strong, not because they are idiots. Fox obviously reinforces the biases, but they have been there for at least 200 years. It is mainly the Republican party which has been exploiting the biases for the last 50+ years. The suits bear responsibility for keeping the biases alive, but the most important suits have been Republican politicians and business leaders who are OK with Republican strategy - it's fine with the business people as long as they get their tax cuts and deregulation.
Trump was certainly not a creation of Fox News - Fox opposed him at first, assuming he would have little chance in a general election. Fox lost viewers recently when they didn't support him enough, so they changed policy. Trump got his message out mainly through just routine coverage by the entire media - someone who got as many primary votes as he did had to be covered. The MSM deserve some blame for covering him as a real-estate mogul and society star earlier on, and then of course he got a reality show - that wasn't Fox, it was NBC.
Fox is a very bad influence, but Kevin's claim that it is uniquely responsible is just nonsense. Trump's main message is not fundamentally different from what Republicans have been peddling since Goldwater, and as one of the two parties they will always have to be covered and will get the message out. And again as a cult leader Trump was absolutely not created by Fox nor does he depend on Fox for support. Fox didn't invent QAnon either.
'Nobody has to watch Fox News '
Not entirely true... I've been dismayed to see it on the TV's at gyms, bank lobbies, and other places of business. Maybe it's cheaper, I don't know, but it seems to be everywhere.
Or it's that those who want Fox news on are very loud.
Yeah. Been surprised by the places that have Fox on the tv.
> People who watch Fox are just not very interested in determining what the actual facts are
So, you're saying they are idiots.
I'm wondering why the White House gives the time of day to the Fox News correspondent?
Because CNN went to bat for FOXnews in 2013 when Obummer gave FOX a cold shoulder one time.
One way to take direct action is to unsubscribe from your cable bundle, and pay for separate streaming packages. Probably less expensive, and it takes $20 per year directly out of the profits of Fox, since the marginal cost of a cable subscriber, to Fox, has to be essentially zero.
LOL.
Definitely less expensive. The articles that claim the costs are comparable often add the cost of internet--like we wouldn't have it otherwise? They might as well add the cost of a TV.
All the costs of streaming are either one-time--$30 for a basic streamer--or month by month. Nothing on Netflix? Drop off until there is.
And if you have access to an antenna, especially an outdoor one, plug it in and do a scan; you'd be surprised at what's out there for free.
The Fox News business model depends not so much on advertising as on cable subscription fees. So a second step is to call on cable companies to drop Fox News from basic cable TV packages. The issue here is that if you’re like many Americans, you: A) don’t watch Fox News, and B) still subsidize Fox News.
If you buy a basic cable package, you’re forced to pay about $20 a year for Fox News.
The cable subscription fees are key. That's the gravy train for Fox. But customers calling cable companies to change their business model is not going to budge in the status quo. It's going to take either legislation or anti-trust action to move the cable business to offer a la carte subscriptions.
They don't believe this stuff because they're idiots, they believe it because they hear it over and over and over from folks on TV who wear suits and ties and act like news anchors. It's the suits and their bosses who are to blame, not anything about the cultural pathologies of the white working class.
These people are adults. They have agency. They share blame too.
They believe this stuff because they're idiots and because they hear it over and over and over from folks on TV who wear suits and ties and act like news anchors.
FIFY
I know lots of people who watch Fox, listen to Limbaugh, and believe most of what they hear from both sources. Few, if any, of them are idiots. Few, if any, of them are even bad people. The answer, sadly is much more complex than that. Yes, they are culpable for the terrible things they believe and for the propaganda they consume so readily. But if you know any conservatives you'll know what I'm saying. Dismissing them as idiots is not helpful.
I'm not trying to be helpful. I'm being honest. Where I come from, honesty is considered helpful. YMMV.
"Yes, they are culpable for the terrible things they believe and for the propaganda they consume so readily."
I think that choosing to believe terrible things and propaganda in the diverse, accessible marketplace of ideas that is America in the 21st century makes them bad people. The fact that they are "nice" to white, cis-gendered Christians doesn't mean they aren't bad people or idiots.
Nah. Believing the election was stolen makes one an idiot.
'They don't believe this stuff because they're idiots,'
I beg to differ. Do I think that mass propaganda is harmful to society? Yes, of course! Do I blame Fox "News" because people don't have enough common sense to listen to Sean Hannity and hear his Agenda being screamed at you?
No, I don't. Because absolving them of accountability is not only a mistake, it is very anti-conservative, according to Sean Hannity.
This is not a normal thing that cable companies will do, but I’ve heard people claim success. The key, I hear, is to use the phrase “material support of insurrection”, which has brought response.
"Fox News is Destroying America" is a purely general claim. With regards to Fox serving as a right-winged eco chamber simply reinforcing pre conceived conservative notions, this is true to an extent, particularly if you only view Fox News Channel. However, as an avid viewer of the network yet also a citizen who will tune in for short segments on MSNBC, CNN, and read newspapers online such as The Washington Post, The New York Times, and even The Guardian occasionally, I find Fox News to be the only network to permit for what is of the utmost necessity in this time of deep polarization further spurred on by vitriolic, reactionary rhetoric by the masses of twitter users who don't take the time to comprehend or analyze, but rather rely on simplistic, preconceived notions. What Fox News permits is analytical, civilized discussion particularly during the day and notably on Special Report and Fox News Sunday. Featuring insightful guests from the left such as liberals like Donna Brazile and Richard Fowler( Both of whom I deeply admire), as well as insightful, rationally minded and analytical conservatives such as Guy Benson and others, we're able to have insight into a community of those with differing political viewpoints who can engage in thoughtful, analytical discussions with one another and yet remain civil and friends. This sense of community is not only particularly special in such divisive times, but it's also particularly beneficial for the public benefit to be able to examine thoughtful, analytical discussions weighing issues and to be able to view such civil perspective. The fact that the political debate is dominated by reactionary trolls on Twitter who lack such perspective on any policy issues yet are ironically enraged at even the slightest opposition to the point of nonsensical madness, is deeply disturbing and should be outwardly dismissed, and righteously so. In addition to the community I described above, includes of Fox News personality Kennedy. While retaining a libertarian viewpoint, Kennedy is able to engage humor into the conversation, lightening the mood amongst insightful policy analysis. Thus, I must enquire, in times of such vitriol, isn't what I described necessary to our political debate to have such examples of unity and civility, as well as thoughtful discussion and analysis. Additionally, is it fair to define Fox News in general terms as a result of the opinion hosts who mislead the average fox viewer on key matters who may reject the community I described above. And finally, is it really fair to generally refer to Fox as a whole. I was linked to this article by Matthew Yglesias, who I generally admire as a fair minded, insightful individual. If the author of this inquiry would wish to respond and clarify that not every aspect of the network is pertinent, then what strategies can be employed to amplify such debate in protest of the general perception of Fox at the moment. And what can be done to have opinion hosts who are able to share conservative opinions, including populistic ones, while not doing the damage the author claims? Thanks for reading if you have.
You seemed to have pulled out ca. 3 hours of their programming per week. Somehow I doubt that's enough to counter Carlson, or Hannity, or Dobbs (oops, he's fired), or....
Inquire*
I apologize for the typo.
Never watch Fox news because I don't watch TV, but I would never watch it even if I did watch TV. This country is about the freedom to lie and spread falsehoods just as much as it is about the freedom to tell the truth.
This is not going to change. We're still monkeys dressed in suits.
Fox is re-negotiating their carraige fees with about half of the cable companies right now.
"They don't believe this stuff because they're idiots, they believe it because they hear it over and over and over from folks on TV who wear suits and ties and act like news anchors."
No doubt some do. But a lot more believe it because they hear it coming out their radio 24/7. The audience for right-wing talk-back radio is double-digit times bigger than Fox's viewership, and much of what they hear is more inflammatory than anything a Fox pundit would get away with. I don't know why Kevin has this blind spot about the influence of talk-back radio.
Kevin- you either agree that Fox News should be part of the national conversation or you've given up on pluralism, it's really that simple. While you may want Fox News to be considered 'extreme', it's clearly not by any objective standard. There are plenty of news organizations (OAN, etc.) that are to the right and cater to an audience that comes close to the 5-10% that might start to fit the definition of 'extreme'. Fox News represents the views of roughly 50% of the politically engaged people of this country, and therefore you need to grapple with it as an actual representative organization, not simply dismiss it as a giant brainwashing apparatus that needs to be effectively cancelled.
You cannot have pluralism if you think that your opposition has beliefs that are 'beyond the pale' and need to silenced/eliminated through non-representative means (and building a Twitter mob to pressure cable companies surely qualifies as such a method). If you think American conservatism is so bad that we need to silence one of the only voices it has on cable television than it seems like you don't believe Americans can govern themselves. I think that belief has far more negative consequences than anything Fox News has produced.
“ If you think American conservatism is so bad that we need to silence one of the only voices it has on cable television than it seems like you don't believe Americans can govern themselves.”
You may want to take that up with Trump’s Capitol mob. I don’t think “conservatism “ is so bad, but it’s up to those chickensh** to save themselves from anti-American Trumpism. I can’t do it for them.
Why can't you apply the same logic to CNN? As cops were getting hit in the head with bricks in June, their anchors were telling America that "protest" doesn't have to be "peaceful" and the "ends justifies the means."
> they believe it because they hear it over and over and over from folks on TV who wear suits and ties and act like news anchors.
So, in other words, they're idiots?
Again, what about all the liberals who repeat misinformation from their preferred news sites that constantly mangle their reporting?
Are they, "in other words, idiots?"
"At the very least it would be very slow since even if big cable companies fought back against Fox, the earliest it could happen is whenever their current contracts come up for renewal."
According to Media Matters, that's this year.
"In 2021, a wave of big contracts between Fox News and TV providers for subscriber fees are set to expire. These contracts make up about 65% if Fox News’ subscriber fee revenue. If we want to stop paying the Fox News “tax,” now is the time to act."
https://unfoxmycablebox.com/
I post that site every chance I get, at the slightest excuse. Delighted to see Kristof giving it such exposure. Once you get it into people's heads that THEY ARE PAYING FOR FOXNEWS even if they loath it, we might see action.
One is lifting the barriers to a la carte cable: paying only for the channels that you actually watch. That's something cons can get behind--they hate MSNBC and CNN; do they know they're paying for it?
The other is dropping cable altogether and going to streaming and OTA broadcast. Every honest study shows that it's vastly cheaper. One-time set up costs for a streaming device and an antenna, and then pay as you go, month by month. Nothing on Netflix? Drop it until there is.
Praise from Matt Yglesias on Twitter. I don't know Matt's standing around here, or in Kevin's mind, but IMO this is high praise indeed. Especially since I had implied the same thing in an earlier comment. Big loss for Mother Jones. Time to donate I guess.
--r
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