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Nicole Saunders, Director of Communities at Zendesk and Chris Detzel give their take on some trainings you an take to become a solid community manager. We also talk about putting yourself out there through guest speaking, presenting on a specific subject matter and more.
Creators & Guests
Host
Chris Detzel
Chris is a versatile Digital Community Strategist with several years of experience. He has owned community vision, strategy, and execution. He is responsible for leading the development and execution of community engagement programs, creating compelling content for customer communities and acts as the voice of the customer. He believes that data should drive decisions as it is the key element of any long-term successful strategy.
Host
Nicole Saunders
As Director of Community at Zendesk, she oversee the Community Team (part of the Global Digital Experiences team), set strategy, define policy and governance, develop and launch new community products, and engage our user community. Our programs include: an online community, virtual events, user groups, community champions, customer advocacy, and an annual global virtual community summit.
What is Peers Over Beers - Community Experts Podcast?
B2B Community Strategist Chris Detzel is your host for this fun and straight shooting podcast for enterprise community leaders / managers and digital savvy professionals. With easy and natural inquisitive banter, your host will tackle hard issues facing community leaders and managers in their day-to-day struggles, and yes, sometimes over a beer. From starting new communities, digitally transforming enterprise culture, moderation, and globalization techniques are all up for discussion.
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Check out the Peers Over Beers YouTube page and don't forget to subscribe!
Welcome to another episode of peers.
Over beers, your favorite, digital and social evangelist podcast with
your industry veteran hosts, Chris Detzel.
This podcast Starts Now.
Welcome to another series of Peers Over Beers.
My name is Chris Detzel and we now have a long time and Nicole Saunders
here.
So Nicole, how are you?
I'm doing.
Well.
Thanks for having me back again.
Chris.
Well, thanks for coming back.
I really appreciate it.
We've had a lot of really good guests and one my favorite guests, not
really guess long timers you.
So, you keep coming back and we keep talking about some smart things
today.
I know we wanted to, we were, we had a pre-show.
Maybe I should record some of these pretty shows because, you know,
I'm gonna
Yeah, why not but we gotta talk to you about this kind of professional
development education.
So one was, you know looking at professional development for, maybe
your staff but also for yourself and how do we do that?
So I think that's going to be a good discussion today.
What do you think?
I agree?
You know, I know it's been top of mind for me.
We've been working on professional development, plans zendesk, and
with my team and talking a lot about
About, you know, what are the skill sets that people need to be
successful for this job.
What are the skill sets that people need to be successful for working
sort of in any corporate environment.
And how do you build those skills?
And how do you get there?
And some things are really direct right?
Like, everybody needs to know how to build and present again, slide
deck and there are millions of YouTube videos out there and Sample
slides.
And you know, that's something where it's like, okay, I'm gonna watch
this video.
I'm going to practice, I'm going to give some presentations and I'm
going to build it my deck skills, but then
Is more nebulous things, right?
And it's are like, all the stuff we talked about in terms of, you
know, how, how do you build up your Community Management, knowledge,
more broadly.
And how do you, how do you do those things?
Yeah, they just probably a lot of ways to it.
I've never seen organization from a community standpoint, you know, do
that specifically.
But like you said, there's things like sea school, there's things
like, what's the other one?
You mentioned the cmx community and be
Say, oh, that's right.
And so, there are things out there to can.
I help you understand Community Management as a whole.
My assumption is that they'll talk about content strategy, engagement
strategy, and, you know, maybe even how to build a community and
things like that, and, you know, but something that I always said, is
a lot of times it's especially for, like, you and me, you know, that
dinner in the industry for a long time, what are things that we can
do?
And I think sometimes you just have to push yourself to go out there
and do things like, you know, presents outside of your certainly,
Renting in front of your company.
So it's always a little bit scary.
If you're a first-time presenter, you know, it's it's just a matter of
doing it.
You're going to mess up some you're gonna you know, but you'll get a
lot of good feedback.
It's sometimes scary to speak in public and sometimes you
Push yourself to maybe even go outside of that talk about Community
Management.
That's a little scary because then you have peers judging you.
So you think, you know about how you except maybe you do sometimes
right, you know.
And maybe although I would say most of the time people are so
supportive, especially Mommy.
I just meant world.
I remember the first time I got up and gave a presentation at CMS and
man.
I will tell your I worked on that presentation months.
Like my husband had it memorized by the time I got him, stuck like
that.
So many times but still tweaking Slide the night before the
presentation stuff and you get up there and then you just realized
like all of these people want you to be successful.
Yeah, they want to hear what you have to say.
They're not going to judge if you trip up your words or forget one
little piece and unless you're saying something really incredibly
controversial.
Probably, you know, you're sharing stuff is really going to help other
people and it's so important to keep that in mind.
I think when most of us think about like presenting aspects, being a
compass or like, oh my God, I have to be an absolute expert.
And ask my case has to be bulletproof.
And
Like it really, really doesn't?
You just need to kind of share your perspective and how you do
something.
And chances are you will blow someone's mind and the audience, you
know?
No II agree and, and you're right, but sometimes we have this thinking
around.
Well, I'm in front of my peers and, you know, they are going to judge
me.
Oh my gosh, the reality know if I say something wrong.
Yeah.
The reality is, is that they probably won't, you know, but still you
I've got to get out there and and even if you do poorly, which a lot
of times you won't if you prepare and you do pretty well, I'm not
saying you shouldn't just get out there and just start speaking and on
a topic and not be prepared.
I think that's part of, you know, getting out there and building out
your skillset and kind of presenting and that kind of stuff.
So, I don't know.
I mean, that's, that's my thinking around how somebody like, myself,
or somebody like you is, you know, maybe teaching a class, may be
getting out there and present it.
Or you know those kinds of things.
Certainly going to these new conferences that are popping up, you
know, around the u.s.
I mean, I saw this conference that's coming up in April that get on my
calendar one it not on my calendar but on LinkedIn and say Chris are
you going to this conference thing is like, I don't know.
You can anything about it and I started looking.
It's like all these Community people are getting together.
It's like, oh my God, I don't know.
I mean, I won't be able to make it this time.
But still, you know, there's all kinds of things popping up.
Yeah.
Well one of the things that I
Love about sort of the new more virtual world is that there are a lot
more opportunities you that stuff.
It used to be every year.
I'd like look at the conference calendar and it picked like, no one,
but I want to like try to get my company to pay for me to go to
unlock.
That was it?
That was my thing for the year.
No.
No, it's a lot of these are virtual.
You know, I just went to Topia had a community unconference on
Wednesday.
And I went from this hated on that and all I had any black a couple
hours of my calendar and I got to go connected to the people that I've
always wanted to meet.
I ran into Alex angel from calm store and Jamie King.
And a couple of other like really cool Community professionals that
I've been following on LinkedIn and Twitter and things like that,
somebody like got to go talk to them.
So I think it's so important to get out there and network and it
always surprises me how many people don't do that?
Because I know I have gained so much value from getting out there and
talking to other community Professionals in hearing how they do things
at their organization and just kind of getting you know, it's so
funny.
I suppose my own Community, right?
It's getting those real-world experiences from other people that are
doing the thing that you're trying to do and hearing about it.
I also think and we were talking about the hold in the pre-show.
You really become an expert at something when you start to teach it.
Hmm.
There have been so many times in my life.
I'm sorry.
I've always loved teaching.
I thought about being a teacher earlier in my life.
And so typically, when I learn a skill, what tends to happen is like,
I could try something out.
I like it.
I'll earn it.
And then eventually get certified and start teaching it.
I did this one.
I wasn't martial arts.
As a kid.
I've done this with music was taking a class at my gym for a while and
now I teach a dance aerobics class because of it.
And but the thing is that like you can get to a really high level and
then once you start teaching it, you get to this whole new level and
there's something about the way that you process, the information,
when you start trying to teach it to somebody else, that really helps
your brain like lock it, in formulate, your view.
And so I encourage everybody to try to teach something that you want
to be really.
Good at to someone else, even if it's just like, hey, Mom.
Can I like teach you the basics of Community Management for an hour?
The process of trying to explain it to somebody else will make a
difference in your own comprehension of in your own.
I mean, your mom might not like it, but yeah.
Yeah.
She may not choose our fifth, pretty pumped when I taught her about
Twitter though.
Wow, that yeah, that's a little different, right?
Because everybody has some interest in Twitter.
So you sang and hot singing, or what?
- yeah, I play the guitar and I sing and I remember it's hot super
formally but you know taught people a few guitar chords here and there
or some basic vocal techniques and things like that and maybe we'll
have you like, Dan one of these shows right before or podcast.
We'll just have you start playing and singing a song or something.
What do you think we can do that?
This is the first year we couldn't all get together in person to have
like one of those amazing holiday parties at tech companies like video
and so we did a virtual one and they're trying to figure like, how do
we make this fun?
And how do we like Chef personality of our employees?
As we asked everybody to make like little short video clips of like,
you know something I'm grateful for something I learned this year and
I decided to write a song that's awesome surviving 2020.
Then does going to end up being like the like in the middle of the
video or the whole photo montage later written everything like that.
How long is it now?
Whatever the song.
It was like two minutes.
Oh, you should send it over to my own.
I'll push it out here on the YouTube and I'll push it out on the
podcast.
If you want.
There you go.
Well, I get inside jokes and then desk so it might not be posting
videos, but it was super fun.
Right?
And it was it was a clumsy like bring myself to work in the in a more
authentic way.
A lot of people didn't know that, that's not me.
So it was funny.
Wow.
Well, that's that's pretty cool.
I love it.
I'm seriously gonna have you
Write a song about.
Here's overhears their past or something like that.
And I don't know whatever you want to do.
You should, you should think about that.
All right, one minute or two is fine.
I usually actually you did my guitar propped up right here.
It's just, I think I remember seeing that before.
Yeah.
It's been in its case.
Okay, a couple weeks here, but probably kind of pull back out.
Yeah.
Think about it.
Just think about it.
Let me know.
Alright, so better back to the topic of learning and teaching.
And things like that, but no, that was fun.
I can enjoy that, you know, want to hear it, you know as I kind of
think about Rel Tino's organization and their training and even when
you think about when somebody on boards for the first time as
something that you know, we're working on in a big way training.
I'm not sure you know and more specifically Community Management, you
know, I think that's going to be on me.
So because as I
Higher, I'm going to have to figure out, you know, what's the best way
kind of do that?
And I think in the beginning is probably just going to be more of a
Hands-On type stuff, you know, if it's, you know, if they have some
years of experience, that's great was figure out what that is and then
try to, you know, hone in on the things that we're trying to do here
lto from a community standpoint.
But as you kind of grow, I assume that you can have to do something a
little bit different, you know, because it can't be Hands-On with
everybody.
Yeah, um, I don't know.
Things like with my team.
We've done a lot of like let's all read the same book at the same
time.
Right?
So like maybe we'll take, you know, what if you had Rich Millington
on, I think last week so we all picked up one of his books and read it
and sort of literally did like a book club it work.
Or we'd like, okay, we're going to read chapter one.
I'm going to talk about it.
The team meeting on Monday.
We had different people lead the discussions on each section and it's
it's kind of cool to go through those.
Kinds of processes with your team and it's good way to like kind of do
that education a little bit more fun.
We don't have to be Hands-On with each person.
Right?
But you kind of do group learning and so like we did with the cmx MBA
program last year.
Yeah.
We all went through it together.
Well, it was good because it got her some discussion and I think it's
also a good way to make sure you're leveling up the whole team.
Sort of, at equal point, right?
Everybody's hearing the same information, you're engaging the same
conversation.
So those kinds of things can be really handy.
But yeah, it's interesting like zendesk offers a ton of like
mentorship opportunities and leadership programs and there's all sorts
profession development stuff.
But when it comes to specific Community Management, I've definitely
had to kind of go seek that out.
You know, it's one of the things we consider that the tip of the Spear
of the organization if you will is like having to figure out what are
those resources and who are those experts, you can bring in and that
kind of thing.
And I think that's very interesting because and how you've done that
that's really a great way to kind of get everybody engaged involved.
It also, it's like a team exercise, you know, if you had to make me
read books, that would be like, I have to leave the.
Well, I sent him on the books for Christmas and then I felt like I was
a really lame boss, just finding like work-related stuff that followed
it up with some treat be like, Merry Christmas for work.
Now, read it before the end of the year.
So we can just I'm off.
Please be thinking about work.
No, it's not.
Not where you want to set people up for but yeah it I think the other
thing that I've really discovered, you know, thinking about going in
and teaching there.
Sometimes we don't realize how much we know about a topic until you
try to teach it to somebody that doesn't have the same knowledge and
experience.
And you know, I've had some really amazing people in my team and some
very experienced Community managers and it's easy for me to assume
that they all have the same context and frame of reference that I do.
Because they're also experienced but an interesting, sometimes you get
Into these conversation go.
Oh, yeah, you know, like three of the people like team of read this
book, but two people have it.
And so they have a different frame of reference for a certain
conversation or some process or workload.
So it is helpful to just kind of get everybody on the same page and
make sure.
And, you know, I kind of go through that step by step, not think is a
leader, you know, you're trying to kind of get people to think like
you in a way, you know, and I'm not saying that they don't have their
own ways of doing certain things, but
You know you want to make sure that when you look at the strategy and
the focus where we should put our efforts and time and you want to get
them on that same page and and thinking about you know, whether it's
engagement content, strategy, and all that kind of stuff in that, you
know, if it's a support Community, then we're writing stuff about
support stuff not, you know about leadership because not saying that
that's not important, but it's not that type of community or I don't
know.
Just making sure that
That we've got the same goals.
We're focused on the same things and, you know, think like Nicole went
away without saying things like Nicole necessarily.
I don't know, important to have like a common.
Like I said, frame of reference, or framework and common vocabulary.
It's also super valuable to have different points of view.
Sure.
I'm one person on my team who almost always brings in a different
perspective than the rest of us, and I'm so grateful for that because
it's so helpful to have somebody that is looking at things from a
different angle and it's
Us question our decisions and make sure that we're really validating
that what we're doing is the thing we want to be doing but to your
point, you know, you do want to have some things where it's like
you've got a common ground to work from or when I say, hey, I need a
strategic outline.
Everybody knows what that mean.
Yeah.
That was like something.
I really think the point where the okay everybody.
I want your she's got like by the state and they're like, not
everybody.
You knew what that meant was right?
And like well, what, what does that need to include and
So some people are purchasing more tactical level and some people
pressure for a more philosophical level.
And so we kind of had that would come in our sandwich.
Hey, when we talked about putting together a strategy.
What does that actually mean?
What does that neither include what level of fidelity or we talking
about?
It's a good point because that happens to me all the time.
I'll be on these.
Hey Chris, I need your, you know, your executive overview and and your
data around community and thinking.
Well, this is a new thing.
So,
How's everybody else doing this executive overview?
So I'm looking at, you know, how the customers doing and how marketing
is doing it, how products doing it?
Because, you know, I can have access to their stuff and generally, I'm
not the first one to have to go do it.
Sounds like, all right.
Looks like it looks like this.
So I'm going to try it and see what happens, you know, and, you know,
you'll get feedback but it's a good point because things change a lot.
But when you start thinking about the language of, you know, I need
your strategic outlines.
Well, what?
Is that look like, you know, how do you do that?
You know, because it's not, I make shit up all the time, you know, to
be honest.
Like I'll just assume.
Okay.
Well, there's nobody here to guide me to do this, you know, so I'm
gonna try it.
You know, you try to be smart and look at what others have done but
you're right.
I mean, it's an extremely good point, but I think it also helps them
to know what a strategic outline is.
And and then when they have to go do something, you know, and they
level up or when they have to get in front of you know, a group of
people.
We'll do it.
Then.
They start talking about it, you know, and start gonna people start
having the same languages them eventually.
I think, you know, something something that's important is to be okay
asking those questions.
And looking for those examples earlier in my career.
I felt like part of being an expert was like actually come up with
this from scratch.
That dude haven't my own version of it.
Like no copy borrow.
Yes, and then add your own spice to it.
And and you know make it your own but there's so few things.
You actually have to build from scratch without, you know, a little
bit of help or support for things like that.
And then there's some things especially the community issues.
Like they're really not well known processes.
Like hey, if you're implementing user groups, here's what works.
Yeah, follow this formula and implement this and it should be
successful at your organization as well.
Now you may have to make a few adjustments, you know for your specific
goals or your specific audience or something.
But a lot of these cases, you know what I'm saying?
Like, don't go reinvent the wheel.
Yeah, go.
Look at those resources out there.
Do participate in the communities.
For Community managers go.
Watch those videos.
You listen to the podcasts.
People have figured out how to do some of this stuff, and it's not to
say there's not room for Innovation, but you do have to start at
square one.
You can, you can probably start at Square 3, such a good play.
It's like, I was talking to someone earlier today and they're building
a community from scratch, and I was like, well, when
You build a community from scratch.
And, you know, this person was talking about.
Well, you know what, I call this customers point of view and
everything else.
It's like, you know, that's one way to do it was like, but when I go
and build a community from scratch with for B2B company, how do you
know what they need?
There's no community.
So I already know and if it's a support commuter, I know exactly what
to go do.
Exactly.
Now.
I'm not saying it won't reach out to customers, but that's not the
first thing I'm gonna go do already know what they need.
They have a problem somewhere or two with the product.
So let's go figure out what those problems are.
And
And start building, you know, like and to me that's just it.
There is a Formula that I'm not saying.
Hey, you need to use Chris Dental formula.
What I'm saying is my formula has worked three or four places that
I've been without fail, you know, and people love it, you know, and so
there did thousand different ways to go about it, but there are some
ways that have just work, you know, and, and that's a good point.
You know, like, hey, I want to build a user group.
I'm coming in too, cold to say, you know, to have a proven way or at
Least a methodology that has worked for you and the team.
Yes, I do.
This is what we did, you know, that kind of stuff.
And then and I think that's that's a great point in extremely
important, you know.
Yeah.
I think the other thing that's really important, asking questions a
lot of people especially when they're in a growth phase of their
career.
Sort of have that imposter syndrome or you know, I don't want to ask
questions because I don't want to look dumb or I don't want to ask
questions that I want to look good.
Don't know what I'm doing.
And because some people is the only time you're gonna look dumb is if
you didn't ask a question that you should have and you came in without
the information you needed.
And so it's like always ask the question.
You know, it's just like Elementary School chances.
Are somebody else in the room also has that question is also scared to
ask it.
And question can promote conversation.
They can promote probe deeper analysis.
And so it's always like if you're not sure go ask and if the pretty
resin didn't know, go find someone that does and and it speaks back to
the
Importance of building up that Network in an engaging with other
professionals across the industry, you know, just like you and I are
doing here.
It's it's so critical to being successful in this in this field.
Yeah it is.
And I was thinking about when you said that if you're not asking
questions and you just kind of make some shit up, I'm not saying you
should never make some shit up, but maybe sometimes if you know that
your boss might know or other people in the industry, might know you
just take a crack at it because that's good, but you could look really
dumb, you know.
I mean if you're not doing the research and you're not trying to ask
those questions, and the other thing is, it's for those that haven't
built up the network.
That's just part of the journey, right?
You know, you just have to start asking so get out there, you know,
and that's another skill, you know, that will be under your belt.
All the sudden, you know, you're going to have all these people
helping you.
If you spend literally, I've spent years networking with people.
Yep.
Between this two.
I mean years and so I got to the point like even
This peers over beers, for example.
Now, you know, I'll find somebody interesting, like, you and I was
like, you know, she has some interesting things to say.
She'd been there for a long time.
You know why, I don't know if she'd be interested in, maybe she'll
want to do the podcast with me.
And so I just ask you're like, yeah, I would love to, we didn't know
each other from anything besides seeing each other on LinkedIn every
now and then or Twitter.
I don't know whatever, you know, and you just have to ask you just
have to get out there and push to build that Network up.
You know, I mean if I didn't
Ask you, then I would never know you really, you know, like I might
get lucky and scared a conference or something one day, you know.
Now, you know, next time we see each other, when we see each other,
we're gonna have a great discussion around, whatever, you know what I
mean?
And so, I think that that's extremely important, you know, wait, wait,
it helps build your career in so many ways, right?
Not just the skill sets, you build anything like that, but, you know,
I've hired people because I, I'm at that guy at a conference three
years ago, and I thought
Talk and I know who really good presenter.
And so when you've got a field of 100 applicants for a role, they're
gonna stand out that person's going to stand out.
You already know something about them, you know, more information
about them, you know, a skill set that they have and, you know, it
doesn't have to be presenting at conferences.
We use that example, couple times, but it can be something as simple
as just reaching out and being like, hey, would you have a 20-minute
Zoom conversation?
I mean, I try to do this multiple kinds of month.
I will surf around both my company directory and then also LinkedIn or
Community things, and just find somebody that
I don't know that what's interesting, but they can.
I come 20 minutes with you and just learn about what you do and every
time it has resulted in a, you know, a fun conversation.
And oftentimes, it's resulted in some further down the line thing, you
know, I had one internal coffee conversation that turned into me
getting my hands on a report.
I've never had access as I was like, data science.
I'm interested.
Let's talk about that.
And yeah, once we start I got what we did.
It was like, oh I could help you with this and I could do this from
you know that
Doubt or you know you reset on LinkedIn and look.
Now.
I'm on a podcast sometimes.
Yeah, and hopefully you keep coming.
I like that.
You get me started thinking and it's networking is more than just just
reaching outside of you know, your company.
I like that a lot because one when I first started company at a
company, you know, I'll start I'll just go I'll just start looking
through the directory because I know the people that I want to talk
with.
I don't know, know them personally, but I know.
At the smart people.
I need the leaders I need and so I'll probably have 40 or 50
conversations in two weeks.
Literally, but something else.
I've been I've done at other companies and sort of this one seems like
when somebody new comes now, they just want to talk to me because
their bosses go talk to Crystal and these other people, right?
But new people are fine, but you know, they don't know the job yet,
you know, and so they know what they're going to do.
I like what you said is so what I like to do and I did this.
Obviously, as every year, I'd make a an effort, like, in January, or
February to go talk to 10 or 15 new people.
I've never talked to her.
I haven't talked to in a really long time that it probably been with
the company.
I don't know six months or a year or whatever, you know, just because
they have knowledge of their job and all of it should what's going on.
So that like you said, you know, you get to learn about a report that
you didn't know about that.
You're highly interested in or you get to know about a place that
maybe community.
Or that you can help with or they can help you it or you know, you
just don't know and there's just lots of opportunity and in your own
organization to network and get to know it and know what happens is
going to even it for your staff.
If your staff were to do something like that, you know, all the sudden
they're going to start building these really cool relationships and
maybe discover something that has never been done before.
And that is truly Innovative and really cool, you know, and that they
want to try and
They start trying it and oh my God, it's amazing her.
Maybe it's not, but at least you tried it, you know, it it opens the
doors for a lot of different things if that makes sense.
Absolutely.
I think that is so true, and it's always amazing.
You know, when you run into somebody or do one of those, like, sort of
spontaneous coffees, and I had no idea.
This thing was happening at the time, Chef, right?
Like, how would I ever known this program with here?
But gosh, wouldn't it be great if we can work together on this or
integrate the community somehow or, you know, bring these things
together and I can't tell you how many times I've turned into just
really neat stuff happening.
Yeah, career for the community or whatever, you know.
Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes it turns out to be something really cool.
Sometimes it doesn't but then, you know, three months down the road or
eight months down the road that person might reach out to you, because
they remember you reached out to them and they need this bang.
And, you know, it just it's just so important especially as Community
leaders Community managers, you know, to do that, you know, that's
sometimes it's not a strength of people, you know, they just don't do
that, you know, but I feel like this, this particular job kind of
Should push us to do that one way or another, you know?
Oh, yeah, I mean, Katie plays into so many parts of the business and,
you know, I don't know that it's completely unique Community, but I
feel like you just pretty special in the way that it can connect with
so many departments.
And it's, it's such a key thing to to be well-known across your
organization and to know what other parts of the organization is
doing.
And as
QT, M, you know, one of our jobs is to be the expert in letting other
people know what the community can do.
I think that's, that's something that I've seen come out.
Sometimes they wound up.
You know, nobody asked me to bring the community into this.
Yeah.
And what's the most of this time that I bring my team into I bring us
into you, right?
I'll be in a meeting said, hey, you know what, we can do this in the
community to support that effort or hey, why don't we we publish that
or?
Why don't we pull this thing out of the community?
And first it over here and it really is about sort of inserting that
and I think
I think sometimes doing those kinds of networking.
It can feel like a when I have time for it or it's and yeah have and I
would argue that it's one of the most important things for people to
do is just fine in that 20 minutes once or twice a week, maybe even
just block time on your calendar.
Be like, every Thursday.
Yeah, I'm gonna have a zoom coffee with somebody.
However, it is internal external, whatever.
I'm gonna meet somebody new and learn a little bit from them.
Yeah.
I think I find myself over the years push.
Myself to do the uncomfortable a lot, you know.
And I think if you're not doing that, you can't grow, you know, I
mean, it's like I'll give you a small example and, you know, I'm very
comfortable presenting all things Community.
I'm really good at finding stories and presenting the stories talking
about the stories and the value, and things like that, but I'm not
necessarily comfortable with is something presenting on something new.
So
Let's just say, you know, I now own the real Tio executive Council and
so, you know, it's a bunch of Executives and our Executives and, you
know, in our customers, their Executives, right?
Getting together, talking about road maps, and all these other things.
And, you know, one is, maybe it's kind of this fear fear of being in
front of Executives.
It's not that I'm fearful of being in front of executive.
But if I have to present something, you know, to these people about
Something that's new to me like this executive Council like, you know
our CEOs like who's going to present the information from you know,
read out, you know about the executive Council.
I'm thinking maybe somebody else will step up to that.
Somebody else is going to step up to that and it is not necessary.
It's like what's the content that I need to present in front of them?
You know, like that's the hard part for me is like what is it that
they I need to push on this PowerPoint.
That's probably only two slides or
Three, you know?
And I'm like, I don't really know.
It was good.
Here's the readout.
Here's you know, what?
We accomplished added so that to me is stepping out of my comfort
zone, you know, and, you know, people are like, even my CTO and
founder because at said, oh, so nervous for a meeting of what you're
nervous.
Yeah, I get nervous and, you know, I want it to go well and all these
things and generally it does.
But, you know, you just have to.
I feel like
like,
Be comfortable with being uncomfortable a lot, you know, I mean,
because with community, that think this is with a lot of jobs.
So, we're talking about Community, but, you know, this because it's
the community podcast, but still with what we do is just to me, is
sometimes are feeling uncomfortable, a lot now, but being also smart
and confident in what I do, you know, but I don't know if you have any
thoughts about that, but that's just one little example.
Well, I think, you know, the thing that you said is you have to get
comfy.
Of being uncomfortable.
And I think it is so true that like if you are comfortable with that,
you're doing most of the time.
Yeah, you're probably not growing very much, right?
Yeah.
It's not the in Japan.
Comfortable all the time.
Nobody's going to function.
Well if they're constantly like some stress either but I think one of
the things that is really key for people that want to grow in their
careers and expanded their success and that kind of thing is you do
have to challenge yourself and he kind of got a Teeter on the edge of
uncomfortable more often than not.
And it's okay to like goat
Like I'm comfortable and like take a break and go back to your comfort
zone for a couple weeks.
Yeah, but you got to keep pushing yourself and getting out there
whether that's presenting, or learning something new, or just put
yourself out there to network.
It is so key because most of the time we're going to find out, is that
thing you were so scared of like, isn't that scary?
Yeah, you're gonna learn something.
We're going to say.
Oh, you did amazing.
You did great.
And then they start asking a bunch of questions and like, okay.
Yeah.
So much more than we do.
Most, people are building their skill sets as they go through and you
weren't hired because you were going to know exactly what to do all
the time.
We were hired because I believe in your ability to figure it out.
Yeah, and that's really the key is that it's about being able to ask
the questions and think through something and go figure out the
answer.
It's not about rolling up to a job and knowing 100% about from day
one.
If you
You wrote your job, you know, 100 from day one.
You have taken a job.
That is to Junior for you.
And you should be taking a more senior job and getting paid more for
it.
Yeah, you make a good point and I forgot my train of thought and I
thought it was so good.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to bring you that you had it and then I kind of lost my
ID real.
A conversation.
Usually I do think that's a good point because oh, I think that when
you look at
Being the expert in your field, you're going to know especially in an
organization.
You're going to know 100 times more than the person that isn't product
or most likely, you know, or the most of the organization.
So have confidence in that piece, right?
Like okay, you know, Nicole knows a lot, you know, she's been doing
this for a long time.
But you know what, the second person that knows the most is you you
know, or whatever.
And maybe you know about certain areas.
Nicole doesn't, you know, our little bit more or those kind of things.
But I think, you know, you just have I think confidence is the key to
kind of think about like, when I went to imperva several years ago,
you know, I was used to, I had a boss that would really help me kind
of think through certain things about Community because I wasn't the
expert.
But when I went to a bar, I was the one starting the community from
scratch.
And so I had to be, I was uncomfortable all the time, you know,
getting funnel leadership, you know, and they cannot
Oh shit, you know but then I have a serious like I had to present it
and see it from the CEO staff.
I had to present in front of the entire company, especially the
beginning because I had to get the community kind of rolling.
And so what I had to do was what is have confidence that I knew for
the most part, what I was talking about.
I didn't know everything but that was what I was afraid of is that I
might be stomped or a might be you know, and then just practice, you
know, you have that presentation.
Practice don't just throw this presentation together and just don't
practice it because if you do you you could fell and say arms a lot.
I'd say arms a lot already, you know, and but I think that's the key
is person point one time.
She said she was a leader.
It she's my boss boss is boss and I made a call of a vendor selection
and I said, hey, could somebody wanted to go with Salesforce, for
example, communities as like, well.
And they are pushing hard and I said, well, I don't think that's a
good idea.
And and well, I wanted to say it wasn't a good idea and I wasn't sure
how to say that I was scared because that person was above me, you
know, that ingrate and so what I did was, you know, I'm going to take
a chance.
I have nothing to lose.
I'm supposed to be the expert here and I didn't want Salesforce
communities whatever it's called.
Now.
I just didn't want it.
You know, it's like that's not a good idea that the amount of work and
time and effort and money.
And so I did I made the call said, I don't think you should go too.
This is y and this is what I think we should go.
Do a look at these vendors and do this and maybe even talk to sell
force.
And that leader said Chris.
That's exactly why we hired you.
So that you and make decisions like this.
You're the expert from then on.
I was the expert.
You know what I mean?
Feel, what did that feel?
Like for you?
It was awesome.
It gave it empowered me, you know, to yeah, be the expert and just
You know, I didn't One Last Story on that piece because I think it's
important.
So, when I came to relative, you.
I had confidence, I know exactly what I was going to do.
But what I didn't know is it's under or understood at the time was
kind of the politics and sometimes you want to play the politics and
you don't always want to go there.
And just well this is what I'm gonna go do this, you know, that kind
of stuff and or are you just you just have a little bit of what I do
and that I got a call.
I was nervous with the CTO and founder of royalty.
Oh and I was talking to her, but I say what's the politics?
Like, you know, because I want to go look at a vendor because I can
just get this going really quick.
But I just want to make sure it goes Chris because we hired you as the
expert and you just need to make a decision and go, we just want you
to go because we need this up and running in as fast as possible as I.
That's all I needed.
I was done and within three or four months Community is up.
And running and gone, you know what I mean?
And so, I think allow yourself to be that expert.
Have that confidence and just go at it.
You know, I mean if somebody gives you that much freedom and says and
their leaders, you know, you just have to go for it.
I think huh.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it is all about confidence.
And sometimes you gotta shake it to make it a little bit.
Just take a deep breath and backlinks to yourself.
Right?
And chances are you will get somebody would say be that's why we hired
you.
Exactly.
And it's a, it can be scary.
Especially the first time you do it, you know, I think back a few
years ago, when I was a little bit more junior level and the first
time I had to go present to see staff.
Hmm.
And man, we spent months getting ready for
For that.
And rehearsing like I had like two slides.
There was like my whole team, right?
We're a team of managers.
We each had like two or three slides for our section and isn't so am I
comparing getting ready?
We went in and went so well.
And like, now I do quarterly and sometimes monthly updates for see
staff and I'll screw, you know, I still spend a fair amount of time
preparing, my slides were steaming thoughtful about it.
We're not talking months.
We're talking a week or two, maybe to get ready and so it does get
better with practice and it is scary.
The first time you do it, but it's such an important.
Thing to go do and skill set to build up.
Now.
It is one time I had when I was in Burma present in front of the sea
staff and I had all these, you only get supposedly 15 minutes.
And so I put together like five slides and I practiced said some
stuff.
And, you know, when I get finally got in there, you know, I'm
sweating.
My pets are kick and you know and everything else.
I'm thinking.
Oh my God, you know, but I went in there with confidence in everything
else.
And I didn't even get through the slides.
Like, I went to one slide and they just start asking me a bunch of
question.
After question, after question.
It was good.
Yeah.
That pretty much knew all the answers.
I knew kind of what they want.
And I was like, well, I prepared these slides, it was good and I
didn't use them, you know, but it's okay, right?
Because sometimes the act of preparing the information gets it in your
head and then when they start throwing those questions that you like,
have you ever had that experience?
When I ask you questions and you start answering like wow, that sounds
really good, right?
Yeah.
Kind of like when you're teaching other people things, that's often
times when you realize how much you actually know about a topic and
how much expertise you actually have.
And in it.
I think it's really easy.
For debts.
Sort of like, you know for somebody that doesn't do this at all and
they're coming in fresh.
Yeah.
Yeah things that feel basic can can sound really impressive and that
kind of thing and you know, executives are definitely gonna ask hard
questions sometimes and I've known some everybody's got different
styles from people that you like get to your sides and make your case
and that's what questions and others will just like sentence.
Number two.
They're in there saying, okay.
So what's the that's right.
The money on this house is going to impact us what's going on?
But yeah, I think you'll find that once you prepare it, you know the
information and if they're asking the questions, that's a great sign.
It means that people are interested.
It means they thinking about it.
It means they want to hear what you think.
And that's that's a really cool thing.
It is and sometimes you're not going to know the answer and you just
going to be upfront.
Don't make shit up and you know, just no I'm serious.
I had a question the other day like a week or two ago and my CEO goes
Chris.
This competitors who are all of our competitors, you know, in the
space that has community and one of these Community is doing and blah,
blah, blah.
And I knew one competitor that had a community that is doing pretty
well and it's been doing it for a long time.
The others, I knew that we had some but it's been a while since I
looked at it.
I said, I said, I know one competitor and that's everybody talks about
and it's really all I know is like, so I think they've been doing it
for a while.
Did they've been doing pretty well.
Well, can we look at their SEO?
Like, I'm pretty sure we can, but, you know, I got to get back to ya.
So, yeah, you know, maybe you don't know the answer but it's let me,
let me go do a little digging into that and I'll get back to you that
information.
Make sure you do, you know, just, you know, that's just part of it.
You can't know everything and you and you know, he'll my CEO respected
that and I think that's the key.
So want to call, it's been good.
Yeah, it's always it's always a pleasure for us.
We always cover so much ground.
I think so.
I think we've solved that problem of, you know, training and and
learning as you go and connecting with people.
I mean, it's solved.
Hopefully.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We just saw them all the problems right there.
Well, hey, thanks for coming on to another peers over beers, Nicole.
I'm Chris tetzel, and and I'm Nicole Sanders and thanks so much for
Having me again, Chris.
All right.
Thank you.